Recently in Dialogue on Drinking Category

Liberal arts majors John Zang and Rob Turchick join Dean Long for episode 38 of our bi-weekly podcast Liberal Arts Voices to discuss THON and State Patty's Day.

John and Rob begin the podcast by discussing their experiences as dancers in last weekend's IFC/Panhellenic Dance Marathon (THON). For those who do not know, THON is a Penn State student-run annual initiative to raise money in support of pediatric cancer research through the four diamonds fund at Hershey Medical Center. This year, Penn State students raised a staggering $10.6 million that will go to children and families facing the many forms of pediatric cancer.

This year, John and Rob filled the two dancer spots earned by the Liberal Arts Undergraduate Council (LAUC) for raising $5,600 last year. John and Rob share how they stayed awake and standing for the 46 hours of the Dance Marathon. John and Rob also talk about how LAUC successfully raised $8,400 this year. Congrats to LAUC for their efforts this year!

The second half of the podcast shifts to a discussion of State Patty's Day, an annual student created holiday occurring this weekend focusing primarily on drinking. The group talks about the recent movement encouraging students to think differently about State Patty's Day, especially in light of the events on campus last fall and early spring. John and Rob shed some light on the variety of responses about the holiday within the student body and across the variety of student organizations. Dean Long talks about his recent blog post with LAUC President Lauren Perrotti focusing on the different service initiatives planned for this weekend.

Liberal Arts Voices: Episode 38 "THON and State Patty's Day" 

To subscribe to Liberal Arts Voice through iTunes, click here.

We encourage all of our listeners to write to us with comments, questions, or suggestions to laus@la.psu.edu. We may even respond to these comments on the next episode of Liberal Arts Voices.

LAUSDeanLong: Over the past two years, I have been engaged in an ongoing dialogue about the culture of drinking at Penn State with the presidents of the Liberal Arts Undergraduate Council. 

LAUSDeanLong: Since our last online Dialogue on Drinking post, I attended a Dialogue on Drinking event facilitated by the World In Conversation Project, which brought students, faculty and administrators together to have a candid discussion about drinking. The details of the discussion are confidential, but I learned a lot during the 90-minute session. It has prompted me to think a lot about questions of freedom and responsibility.

My sense is that students often frame their decisions in terms of personal freedom rather than communal responsibility. This statement, which I admit is already a massive generalization, probably applies to Americans in general, and not just students. But I am thinking right now about students as they make decisions regarding drinking. I have heard many students say something like: if I want to drink to excess, that is my business and the University or the Borough or the police should not involve themselves in what is an issue of personal freedom. Is this a fair characterization of how many, not all, students frame the issue of drinking?

Geoff Halberstadt: I think the background for your question is pretty indicative of how many students feel; however, we both know that students' reasons for drinking vary greatly: work hard...party hard, trying something new, personal stresses, and personal freedom to name just a few. But let's focus on your question: yes - this is a fair characterization of how some students frame this issue. The majority of students understand that there is a balance between personal freedom and communal responsibility. I can see this because the vast majority of students never cause problems or put an undue burden on the community because of their behavior. When that line gets blurred, we see the massive problems that dangerous drinking can cause. If we assume that students see this problem through the lens of personal freedom, how do we address this conflict between personal freedom and the personal responsibility one should feel toward one's community?

LAUSDeanLong: Perhaps we should ask: what responsibilities do you--student, staff, faculty, Borough resident--feel toward the community in which you live? Notice, of course, that in asking this, I have identified different groups of people each of which will likely have commitments to different kinds of communities. So, in asking this, let's limit it to the Penn State University Park community as situated in the Borough of State College. What does it mean to be a member of this Penn State community and what do we owe one another as members of it?

Geoff Halberstadt: I believe we, as students, owe other members (specifically, non-students) of the community two basic things. First we owe them respect as residents, members, and contributors to the same community to which we belong. Secondly, we owe them understanding. What do I mean by that? I believe we owe the other members of the community an understanding of where they come from. This includes understanding why a young family is appalled when students throw beer cans through their windows. Or why a mother is furious when a drunk student breaks into a home in which her children are asleep. Or why a property owner doesn't want garbage tossed in their garden. A basic understanding of other people's positions or situations can lead to mutual respect. A certain amount of respect goes a long way in combating problems that would otherwise arise when students aren't thoughtful of the community in which we live.

Visit the "Dialogue on Drinking" category of our blog to follow the conversation between Dean Long and Geoff Halberstadt from the beginning.

Geoff Halberstadt: The comments for our previous blog post were definitely heartening to see. I'm glad that this conversation has some traction, hopefully that focus can continue as we go forward.

LAUSDeanLong: Yes, I was very impressed by the responses to our first post and hope it provides a good starting point. One concern I have, though, is the degree to which the framework and the comments remain focused largely on the experience of students. This is understandable given that students made up the majority of respondents.

But I know that you attended the Presidential Leadership Academy's presentation to the Borough Council last month. It seems to me that some discussion of that presentation might turn our attention toward the impact of the drinking culture on the wider community. What were your impressions of the event?

Geoff Halberstadt: On Wednesday, November 10, I went to the Presidential Leadership Academy's presentation to the Borough Council. The panelists listening represented the Borough, Penn State, and students - T.J. Bard and Christian Ragland were representing UPUA.

LAUSDeanLong: Can you give us some context about how that meeting came about?

Geoff Halberstadt: Last semester, Spring '10, the PLA researched dangerous drinking in our community and presented their findings in the HUB. The presentation last Wednesday was summary of some elements of their research. The presentation focused on the the phenomenon of pre-gaming, Alumni behavior, Town and Gown relations, and alternative activities to drinking.

I'll be honest, I was disappointed in the conversation I heard. The point that was continuously made was that we must change the culture of drinking here. At one point the assertion was made that, "culture can change in 4 years." This theme of changing the culture of drinking is exactly why Penn State and the Borough will fail with whatever policies and initiatives they implement.

LAUSDeanLong: OK, that is a bold claim. Tell me more about what leads you to this position.

Geoff Halberstadt: Lets take a step back and really look at this position - it is untenable. Policy can not bring about real change when it is facing an entrenched culture like this. Any plan that begins with the premise that the University or the Borough can change the culture is doomed to failure and subsequent head scratching. We must work from the premise that we can alleviate the drinking problem, rather than eradicating it. Once the University and Borough agree to that premise then they can identify policies and initiatives tailored towards achieving that goal.

LAUSDeanLong: I agree that cultural changes are best effected from within the culture itself rather than as imposed from outside. I wonder, though, what it would mean to "alleviate the drinking problem"? If we agree that drinking will not be eradicated, then what does responsible drinking look like? What would it mean to have a community of mature student, parent, faculty, staff and resident drinkers? Perhaps we can shift the discussion by changing the vocabulary from one that emphasizes the "problem to be alleviated or solved" to one that asked "what does it mean to live a healthy, fulfilling life?"

Geoff Halberstadt: You raise an excellent question in pondering what alleviating the excessive drinking problem looks like. To me, alleviating the drinking problem requires an emphasis on reducing excessive drinking, providing relevant, appealing alternatives to high risk drinking (increased intramural sports, concerts, performances), and sound policies that educate students of the dangers in excessive drinking. Those are just a few of many plausible solutions that should be simultaneously enacted. I believe that alleviating the excessive drinking problem is a step towards achieving a "healthy, fulfilling life." I don't feel qualified to determine what a healthy fulfilling life is for everyone. How is that determined? What are the factors included in the determination? 

In the wake of a series of issues that have arisen over the past few years regarding the culture of student drinking here at Penn State, LAUC President, Geoff Halberstadt, and I began a conversation about how we as a community could best respond. We both recognize that there are productive roles for students and administrators to play in addressing the issue. But we also felt that these roles can only emerge from a genuine and open dialogue between students and administrators.

So, what began as a face to face conversation, grew through social media as we tweeted ideas and links to one another. We hope the conversation will begin to blossom here on the LAUS blog as we invite others to participate.  So please join us in a Dialogue on Drinking over the next few months.

LAUS Dean Long: I really appreciate the manner in which you responded to my tweet in September about alcohol education on campus. It reminded me of the conversation your predecessor as LAUC President, Sam Loewner and I had last spring in the wake of the State Patty's Day controversy. That discussion and your responses to my questions about alcohol awareness remind me of how insightful students are about the drinking culture on campus.

Geoff Halberstadt: Thanks for giving me the opportunity to become part of the conversation. It certainly was an interesting way for you and I to fall into this topic, but I'm grateful that we have. I recall the conversation that you and Sam generated last spring and I enjoyed following it. All too often, I feel like the conversation is dominated by the extremes, and student insight is overlooked.

Dean Long: I agree. My experience with students both in as a Philosophy professor and as Associate Dean tells me that there are many thoughtful, responsible and creative students at Penn State who have a lot to contribute about how to address the drinking culture here. Haven't leaders from the UPUA and other organizations been included in thinking through solutions?

Geoff: Yes, student leaders from University Park Undergraduate Association, Interfraternity Council, and others are brought into the conversation, but I am left feeling like many students do not enter into the conversation. For this reason, I'm thankful for the conversation you and I had, and the idea that we developed from that meeting. I believe that starting an online discussion is an excellent way for us to broach this topic with a large audience, especially students. I hope that the conversation we cultivate focuses on the issues and the community impacts. I don't want it to become banal. Hopefully, the discussion we had via Twitter can grow and be entered into by other people.

Dean Long: Me too. So, what are the issues, exactly? Maybe we can identify a number here and address them individually in posts to come. I really hope others will join this dialogue on drinking here on the blog and on twitter under the hashtag: #psuDD. What are the main issues concerning the drinking culture at Penn State that we should discuss?

Here are some possibilities Geoff and I thought of:

• How should we, as a community, respond to dangerous drinking habits? Examples: Four Loko or a student who was found sleeping on State College resident's couch.
• The new Penn State initiative to address the Drinking Culture - what is working, what are its limitations? 
• What are the responsibilities of students, faculty, administrators?

After seeing the headlines from the Collegian about PSU Deans "warning" students about Saturday's State Patty's Day, I thought that it might be a good idea to tweet Sam Loewner, President of the Liberal Arts Undergraduate Council and an officer from University Park Undergraduate Association (UPUA), so we might engage in a discussion about the celebration.  Below is the beginning of our discussion, which we hope will continue in the comments here and elsewhere in the Penn State online and in-person community.

Dean Long: How are students responding to the comments reported in the Collegian and on Onward State in which Deans and other officials are attempting to address the issues around State Patty's Day?

Sam: I think the students are responding in a defensive manner.  The messages from the University range from "Don't drink" to "if you do drink, there will be serious consequences."

Dean Long: How could we enter into a discussion about the important concerns regarding responsible drinking in a productive way?  Specifically, I am interested in the possibility of a deeper dialogue about undergraduate drinking without falling into a paternalistic mode that often provokes the sort of defensiveness you mention.

Sam: Students are already taking a proactive and responsible approach. The UPUA sponsored a full page ad reminding students to make responsible decisions. The Greek governing bodies took actions that limit the roles that sororities and fraternities will play over the weekend. But let's not forget that State Patty's Day was established as a way to bring the Penn State community together.

Dean Long: I think that is an important reminder.  In talking to Meghan White, a 2006 CLA graduate working now at Allegheny College, I was struck by her suggestion that "the event attracts alums as well and it should be noted that it is up to alums to set a positive example to undergraduates about how to celebrate the spirit of Penn State in a responsible way." I think it is important to emphasize the role alums play in this and the fact that it is in some degree a celebration of the Penn State community.

The issue is, can the community respond in a thoughtful and mature way to the real problems that the event can generate?

Sam: The kind of discussion we are having here might serve as a way to begin such a response. Since this is an event based around the Penn State community, I think we can mitigate some of the problems by making sure we are looking out for one another, as I think many of the concerns center around the question of safety.

Dean Long and Sam: How will you look out for your fellow community members this weekend?  What should the University response to State Patty's Day be? How can faculty, students, administrators, and alums work together to address the complex set of issues that stem from the State Patty's Day phenomenon?

This seems to us to be a good opportunity to open a deeper dialogue about these issues and we hope that you will join in the discussion here. 

For those Twitterers, let's use the #StatePatty hash tag.